12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. Buy Winchester model 12 26" vent rib poly choke barrel: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 973937149 . Item . Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 No. says Madis. It is possible for the slide lock to fail to unlock the action during recoil. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. The first was helping the gunsmiths. Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. 4 chilled shot.. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. I was in Jr college then. The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. The finishes and rib are 100% Winchester and in great condi, Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New, Winchester Model 12 pump action 12ga shotgun. Simmons vent rib installed. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. I have the wood all refinished. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. community. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. The committee appointed to study the requirements for continuing business reported a successful reorganization would require the raising of a substantial amount of new capital. That capital was supplied by the Olin family of Olin Industries, owners of Western Cartridge Company. A smothered roar from around the corner! Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Not shown in the table of results are the dense centers of patterns obtained with #4 shot compared to # 8 and #2 shot. Made in 1928, 12 Gauge, 28"" barrel. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Built from 1912 to 1963. This shotg, FOR SALE IS A VERY NICE VINTAGE WINCHESTER MODEL 12, 12GA GA SHOTGUN. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. The era of plentiful ducks and liberal bag limits was also ending. Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. (no choke stamp on barrel). At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 5d 15h 14m Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. Very good condition overall. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. I found some they didn't. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? I have several 2-pin guns. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! another state. Not sure how many of you know this, but the rib has a serial number stamped on the underside of them with the same number stamped on the underside of the barrel. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. Bore is excellent. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. No Reserve. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. I used to club trap targets with it. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. 1938 lists the stock for a 12 gauge skeet grade as 14" with a Buttplate. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. The near nine-pound Model 12 duck gun is an anachronism among todays waterfowl hunting shotguns. MAKE OFFER. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. Such were the men of the long-range duck-hunting cult. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. SERIAL NUMBER 39346 NO ALTERATIONS OF WOOD OR METAL. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The Model 21 double seemed the reasonable choice for Winchesters duck gun. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Its failure to release on discharge made it impossible to shoot doubles [at skeet] with this particular sample. The staff concluded, Mechanically, the sample was not as good as other guns of the same model. Noted were machine marks on the breech bolt, wood not closely fitted, primers struck off center and sharp edges at the chamber. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. Can you help me out? The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. I hunker down and blaze away. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). It looks like it is in very good shape. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." This is a 12 GA pump shotgun manufactured in 1950. It also got a new action slide. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Length of pull is 14". Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. Pictures are of the item listed. It still is. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. I believe the blueing to be original. The balance point is the takedown joint. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Here-tofore, you could only shoot this weight of shot in a 10-gauge double gun with 2 7/8-inch chambers, or the new Ithaca Magnum 10. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. Mechanically excellent. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. Ab steadies the boat. Bore and action are excellent. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. Buckingham had a solid 60-yard duck gun and was on his way to becoming a legend. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? the barrel and chamber are bright and clean. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. It was Western that produced the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge magnum with 2 ounces of shot in 1932. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Full list of professional Gunsmithing services and prices at Simmons Gun Repair Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up Shop All productsBest sellingHand gunsRiflesShot gunsAmmunitionOther ServicesBuild an ARAboutFAQContact UsSign Up No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. Winchester Model 12 Shotguns For Sale Shotgun Winchester Model 12. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. By 1955, the options were matted rib, ventilated rib, straight or pistol grip stock and buttstock and extension slide handle checkered. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. Item. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 1d 15h 33m 17222600. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. At Guns.com, if an FFL is becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. 2. Shooting the Model 12 Duck Gun I own two Model 12 duck guns. No Reserve. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. The Model 12 Duck Gun is a highly specialized tool for hunters who need to put a lot of shot on target at 60 yards or more. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Manufactured in 1962. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. . , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. Cred, Ser no 510553, Mfg 1928 , Numbers Match, 30" Donut Post Vent Rib that is stamped Imp Cyl but has been relined and is Mod, 2nd barrel is 30" Donut Post Vent Rib stamped full but is Mod, Stamp, This Winchester Model 12 was manufactured in 1955 and is in good condition for its age. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Guns.com's selection won't leave you feeling unprepared. No Reserve. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. Refresh your browser window to try again. Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Probably a lot farther than we can hit em. Action works perfectly. The help you need is to get a life. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. Factory original Model 12s with round post ribs were made by Winchester, not Simmons. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. The point is the model 12 evolved. the store. Open Fullscreen. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Fanciers of long-range shotguns now had a 12-gauge repeater shooting a 10-gauge shot load. the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. The Model 12 duck guns are still as suitable for waterfowl passes, fox trails or the habitat of the wary gobbler as they were when the duck hunters at Winchester surprised the market in 1935. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. These were called long-range waterfowl guns.. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed.

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